Talk:Howard Bern
Day 4 6:00am-7:00am I don't recall, but was the video that depicted him ratting out Jack broadcast live, or was it recorded? --Deege515 00:58, 7 May 2007 (UTC) : I just watched the episode yesterday. It was recorded. --Proudhug 01:03, 7 May 2007 (UTC) : Hmm... since the footage was actually filmed during that episode, should we include it as an appearance? --Proudhug 11:56, 7 May 2007 (UTC) :: Whoa! I never noticed this until now. Very, very interesting! I say we include it in the template. We know as a matter of fact that it was recorded after 6am. 16:44, June 10, 2010 (UTC) :::Nearly 10 years later lol but I've added it. The actor is credited on IMDb for the 4 episodes and as said the recording would have occurred in that time frame. -- (talk) 17:49, April 19, 2017 (UTC) ::::This actually got discussed elsewhere, on Forum:Re-opening the character appearances template consensus discussion. It was discussed at length, and for this specific example decided not to include as he does not appear "live" in the episode (so is not included in his "live appearances" section--Acer4666 (Talk) 18:35, April 19, 2017 (UTC) :::::I just noticed it for Jamey Farrell as well with her last appearance, surely the appearances should be done on when that character physically appears? I mean even the actors are credited for those episodes so surely the characters should be because they physically appear in the episodes. You could argue dead characters shouldn't count on that logic or voices. But I'll leave it as it's already been discussed and concluded before. Might be an idea to have there appearance with something next to it like how you guys do it with dead bodies and voices. If I could suggest maybe three stars (***) for appears in recording/flashback or something. -- (talk) 19:06, April 19, 2017 (UTC) ::::::I agree, it is ridiculous how CORPSES get an episode count but not video footage filmed by the actor for the episode in question. And in this case in particular it was definitely even taped during this episode. Just that it was taped off-screen and then played. Toranosuke Almeida (talk) 20:00, April 19, 2017 (UTC) :::So it's not a "live" appearance - anything prerecorded is not live. For any prerecorded appearances, a note is made in the "background information and notes" section. Note that "live" refers to "at the time of occurrence" rather than "alive", so corpses seen in person also get an appearance--Acer4666 (Talk) 20:15, April 19, 2017 (UTC) ::::So people that are only seen via LIVE video feed get an episode count, corpses get an episode count, voices get an episode count, everything gets an episode count, except new footage that was never seen before but was in-universe recorded at an earlier point in time, even if that point in time was during the current episode. I think I got it. But what about a video feed that is being broadcast live, but then it turns out it was in fact broadcast with a one-minute delay? I think the Howard Bern thing is really stretching it, because for all we know this was recorded just 3 minutes before it was shown. But I understand the general idea behind this. Toranosuke Almeida (talk) 20:53, April 19, 2017 (UTC) ::If it's explicitly stated that an appearance is not live, then we don't put a live appearance. Hopefully that's clear--Acer4666 (Talk) 21:19, April 19, 2017 (UTC) Promises in the world of 24 Shouldn't his status be unknown? 24 is a world where it took less than an hour for a videotaped confession to prompt the extradition of a suspect, no need to interview the maker of the confession. Considering how Cheng Zhi was willing to kill, incapacitate (or otherwise distract) Bern's drivers and convoys, it is all too plausible that he simply killed Bern after his arrest (he was willing to break a lot of laws during Day 4 and was willing to illegally and secretly kidnap a federal agent). Bern would've asserted that his confession was duress-obtained. It's actually more likely than not that Zhi got rid of Bern. So really, shouldn't his status be Unknown?--SuperbowserX (talk) 14:49, November 22, 2015 (UTC) :The thing is, there is nothing from 24 that suggests that or backs up this claim. Cheng said he would be released and there is nothing at all to suggest that didn't happen - it is your opinion that he may of been killed, but I think that would never had happened because the whole thing started because a Chinese guy was murdered on Chinese territory. If Cheng killed an American federal agent on American soil he wouldn't really have much of an argument!--Acer4666 (talk) 14:58, November 22, 2015 (UTC) :: I also think Bern should remain listed as alive. Certainly, he was in captivity in a threatening situation, but we know that Bern cooperated with Cheng and that Cheng got what he truly wanted. We didn't see Cheng say something tongue-in-cheek like "thanks for your help" after the confession and then threateningly chamber a round in his pistol, and it fades to black as Bern stares in fear. Such a situation would cause him to be listed as "unknown". Instead, we just see Bern crack and start cooperating, and there's the footage of him confessing later. What we're given is not enough to list him as unknown. 17:17, November 23, 2015 (UTC) : I'd also make the point that if you took what Superbowser said above and applied it to Lee Jong - illegally kidnapped with people incapacitated/killed during his kidnap, last seen in captivity and promised freedom by someone known for illegal killings and breaking promises - you'd get the same thing! But there isn't any actual implied danger to either of them, so they should remain listed as "alive"--Acer4666 (talk) 18:39, November 23, 2015 (UTC)